Are we missing something with all this discussion about price, quality and value. I operate in the £500/1000 for a full day package with a Graphi album for an extra £500. Not exactly a bottom feeder however definitely a chasm away from Damien’s super league status but never the less a reasonably lucrative market. If you ask Damien’s or my clients if they have had value for money they would say definitely (and I check with phantom shopper feedback). The point is we operate in different niche’s of the market. My clients do not expect two shooters plus a gofer turning up at their wedding, just little old me. They also know I work from home and don’t have a superb studio in a beautiful part of the West Country. I haven’t studied art direction at the BBC but I’m certainly trying to attain the very high standards set by Lovegrove Inc. I invest in training, attend seminars and am awaiting the latest DVD’s from Nailsea. I’ll keep on trying to improve my service levels however for now my clients get £1500 of unbelievable service – when I can deliver £5000 of top notch over the moon service then I’ll be competing with Damien et al. Until that day arrives I’ll keep on striving to be a little better every time I step behind the camera.

Your last example is quite frightening when people will spend thousands on Venture but think somehow wedding photography is not in the same league or better.

I think this comes down to education and that responsibility comes to down to us to become better at marketing and selling what we do.

Whilst there is nothing wrong with Venture pictures and they are quite quirky/funky, there is not the quality found in a photograph from a quality wedding/portrait photographer.

The success of Venture is down to their marketing and high-pressure sales. I don’t believe in high pressure sales – great images should sell themselves. And on that note it is also down to us to show potential clients what great value for money they get with us compared to the £500 merchant down the road.

We also need to get away from clients that buy on price alone – thankfully I believe these are mainly the ones looking for photographers in the £200-500 range

Cheers,

Pat

I think you will be shocked at what the general public know about photography We have clients who live in Council houses, have a 5k wedding budget and 2.5k of it comes our way. You then meet with a company director who lives in a large house, drives a Jag and has Venture portraits on the walls that must total about 10k. But they somehow think wedding photography should be cheap and can’t understand the work or Art involved.

Over time I am sure you will have similar meetings.

Andy

I think someone spending £5000 on wedding pictures can tell the difference from photos taken by someone for £500. So if you are at the top of your game then newbies surly are not a threat?

I really like the insight this blog (and others) is giving into the future of the industry. I for one am trying to look for something I can offer that no one but a pro could offer, then I will have the unique selling point Damien talks of, for me I think there is something in hybrid shooting both video and photos with digital output and a high additional premium for prints and albums. This is something that an amateur could never offer in the time-scales and level of finish a pro could.

Cheers

Cris.

Interesting comments, but you are looking at things with a photographers eye. Your right that the guys at the top of their game are poles apart from the cheaper guys but many people just can not see the difference.

I regularly hear friends say they are going to get there mates to photograph their weddings as apparently they shoot as well as I do

Andy

I am probably one of those you would class as an amateur with pro kit, giving it a go and trying my luck. I have recently been made redundant and Photography is an area I would dearly love to move into.

I am spending my time now I am “between” jobs improving my photography, I have spent a couple of days with Marko so I can make the most of my current abilities and I am taking pictures of just about anyone who asks, I’m not taking business from anyone as these people wouldn’t pay for photos taking anyway, if anything I am increasing the market size. I am still looking for work in other areas, but improving my photography is my current day job.

I think the point I would like to make is that you guys at the top of your game surly have nothing to worry about. Take me for example, I am years and years away from the quality I see on this and many other sites, from what I can see the work still stands apart from everything else in the market. In my area, Yorkshire, there are 100′s (literally!) of people calling themselves professional photographers, but only a small handful that are any good. To me this still seems to be quite a small pool of people for a market where people still have money to spend.

If anything I think the current economic environment will scare aware anyone who doesn’t have a talent, in a market where the target quality of the product is so high it’s hard to break into (as I am finding out ) so I think most people will drop away unless they have a real talent.

Cheers

Cris.

I’m currently Semi-Pro with two wedding seasons under my belt. When I first thought about going Pro it was originally fashion & motorsports that inspired me. If you had asked me two years ago if I wanted to do weddings, it was probably about bottom of my list.

However, having your job off shored can make you change your mind about a lot of things. Despite having work published in motorsports I quickly learned that it was also a saturated market and even the “successful” guys were struggling to make a living. Added to that the race circuits were becoming full with amateurs with professional level of equipment, who were more than happy to give their pictures away for the pleasure of being published. Nothing wrong with that, but with an uncertain future I decided to give weddings a go.

Weddings are extremely demanding but I did a lot of hard work and quickly got up to a professional standard achieving LSWPP. Early weddings were easily picked up as I was doing them very cheap, however, now that I have increased my prices enquiries are few and far between. Although prices have risen they are still less than Damien suggests in previous articles.

Two years ago I did manage to find other work within my current organization, however, I fully expect to run out of luck in the next few months. Then I will have to go full time professional photographer and hope that the massive investment in training and equipment will pay off and that I’ll start to see more work as I can devote more time to marketing.

I know that I cannot reduce my prices as that would just not be possible to live on, so the only way is up. The jump from decent paying photography to those upper echelons is massive though and I’m in two minds whether to just continue as I am for now or substantially increase my prices. I think my style, which attempts to bring in fashion/glamour will appeal more to those in the upper echelons but it’s the confidence and the know how to reach out to those markets that I’m currently lacking.

Hope you don’t mind that long write up about my personal situation Damien but believe I’m not that untypical to the kind of person driving to make the cross-over. I am in my early 40′s BTW and I think that definitely does help with confidence from a client’s perspective.

Pat in East Anglia, UK

In order for social photographers to survive the next couple of years of economic uncertainty we will need to work harder and smarter than before. Above all we will need to act in a highly professional manner when working with clients and prospects.

Before working as a photographer I worked in marketing agencies selling services to the banking and Government sector. Every time I had a meeting or did a presentation I was 100% prepared. Many photographers I know take great pictures however are sloppy individuals who believe that their “art” will shine through. In some cases it does however, things such as presentation, ability to show demonstrate and articulate artistic vision along with a good understanding of finance and marketing will be imperative to survive the current economic downturn. Also this tact will separate the professionals from the amateurs trying to make a quick buck on the side who are looking to supplement their income. I have read a lot of photographer’s wanting to purge the industry of “people keeping the quality and prices low”, This is a ridiculous concept as it’s totally subjective and in an unregulated industry such as social photography impossible to enforce. This recession will undoubtedly have a Spartan effect and only the fittest and best will survive, in the long term this will have a positive effect on the industry as quality will pushed up and the level of professionalism will improve. The problem thus far is that we have all had it too easy and now we need to work harder and smarter however in my view this will be put the industry in good stead, so no need to worry about the amateurs who probably will go back to their day jobs before the year is out.

It is obvious to me that on an individual basis there are many stories of growth being driven by positive and tallented photographers. My consulting clients are no exception.

Maintaining the status quo for many photographers over the coming months will need more marketing effort but is completely achievable with the right drive.

What is more interesting is the future of professional photography beyond the immediate economic turmoil.

Will there be growth to match the amateur market? Will the video and stills genres continue to merge and what are we doing to prepare ourselves to meet the new products our clients will demand.

Damien.

Andy

My take is from a perspective of age 62. I am a part time professional photography. Legally speaking, the only difference between a pro and amateur is one is paid the other is not, that is according to the NCAA.

Do my clients get charged as much, lets say Joe McNally. Why, Joe’s work far superior to my work and he is better photographer than me, so is Scott Kelby, etc, etc.

I live in a state with only 4 and 1/2 million people. So the pie is small here.

I turn down weddings shoots, cause I am not that good at this. I refer them on to others. I have the skills to shoot a weddings but I know they will get a better value with a “wedding photog”.

All you established pros I do feel some empathy for you all. But we are not in a new paradigm like or not.

Most all professional photographers sell their time and concepts for guys like me to be a better photographer. Surely they are not so naive to think some of us will go into business to pursue our passion.

Digital and Photoshop is the main reason I can. It’s the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.

In my area in David Ziser, a world class wedding photographer in his own right. David may have to “take down” some prices because of out economy, but Davids work will always be in demand, he is that good.

A guy like me a “newbie” will struggle. That’s ok. But I do nice work, not “top shelf” stuff though.

Each industry goes through a “cleansing” from time to time. It out turn now. No big deal really.

Just be glad you are not real estate professional now. These guys are really suffering.

I use to be a Hospital Chaplin. I never meed anyone on their death bed that said they wished they had make one more sale or been a better photographer,etc etc.

Ken in KY

I’m moving with my wife and our baby boy to Seattle in February and I’m both excited and anxious about relocating my business and starting from scratch. I will almost certainly continue shooting for other wedding studios for the consistency and contacts, but I’m planning on rebranding and updating to a more flash-based portfolio website before investing in advertising.

Every pro was once an amateur. “Purging” the industry of lesser talent is not something that anyone has any control over, so why fret? Focus on your own craft and leave amateurs be.

Thanks for the link to Skillset, I’ll be sure to check them out=)

We as photographers are killing each other by undercutting and amateurs will do photography for nothing – giving away really decent works for nothing (not even money for a thank you meal) even to some big stars (they were prepare to pay because they use the photos for work) in the entertainment industry which is pure wrong.

They are creating a NO VALUE situation where people will look down at photographers as they believe anyone can become a photographer!!!???

That’s what is the fundamental problem at least here in HK

In UK and USA, I fear with more corporation shutting down and heavy worldwide recession (I watched news Woolworths is on bankruptcy protection and I feel sadden – left UK about 1.5 years ago and move back to HK after 25 years in Europe).

Professional photographers will find it harder and harder as we are not really the most essential things in life (I guess not to us photographers).